“The Best We Could Do,” by Thi Bui
“The Magic Fish,” by Trung Le Nguyen
“Family Style: Memories of an American from Vietnam,” by Thien Pham
“My Vietnam, Your Vietnam,” by Christina Vo and Nghia M. Vo
Episode Transcript
It is a computer-generated transcript. Whereas our workforce has reviewed it, there could also be errors.
Ki Sung : Welcome to the MindShift Podcast the place we discover the way forward for studying and the way we elevate our children. I’m Ki Sung. This month marks 50 years because the fall of Saigon, the top of the Vietnam Struggle. And whereas the Vietnamese-American neighborhood right here has flourished and grown, their illustration in youngsters’s books is catching up with the inhabitants. In right now’s episode, we’ll hear from youngsters’s e-book illustrator Minnie Phan, who illustrated the e-book, Simone. The story of Simone is about in California and brings to life a number of the selections a younger woman is compelled to make when evacuating her dwelling due to a wildfire. Minnie Phan illustrated the e-book, however the textual content of the story was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning creator Viet Thanh Nguyen.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan, welcome to Thoughts Shift. Inform us about your e-book, Simone, and what impressed you to inform this story.
Minnie Phan: Hello, it’s so nice to be right here. I’m thrilled. It’s an honor. And Simone truly got here from 2020 throughout a really intense time for I feel everybody throughout the globe the place particularly particularly within the Bay Space the place we had not simply the pandemic however the wildfires as nicely. In order I’m processing and and going by the motions I used to be leaning into myself as an grownup I used to be main into what I’ve all the time which was drawing and portray and writing. And I assumed, what are children doing? And I had a sense children have been doing the very same factor. They have been drawing and writing and recording, reflecting. And so I wrote a brief e-book about wildfires and this expertise of this little woman who’s attempting to know the world by her sketchbook. I pitched it to my agent and she or he stated, I like the artwork, however the story is someplace, it’s not fairly there but. Do you wanna work with a author? in, , I assume I’ve acquired guts as a result of I all of the sudden stated, I do know a author and I prompt, I prompt Viet Thanh Nguyen who I met 10 years in the past and he’s certainly one of my literary heroes and I used to be there on the launch of The Sympathizer earlier than it gained the Pulitzer and I adopted his profession for nearly a decade over and I simply all the time knew that someday I needed to work with him. So when this chance got here up, I stated, attempt to ask Viet. And I keep in mind earlier than any editors or publishers or any contracts, something occurred, Viet acquired the e-mail from his agent about my mission and Viet stated, name me. So I name him, I pitch him this wordless storybook, this phrase much less storyboard. And, I swear in that second, I assumed, I bombed, I blew it, he’s by no means gonna work with me. After which 20 minutes later, I acquired an e mail and he stated, Okay, let’s go.
Ki Sung: Congrats on touchdown such an enormous fish.
Minnie Phan: My household’s from a fishing village, so I’ve acquired it in my bones.
Ki Sung: Superior.
Minnie Phan: So, I typically pitch the e-book as a younger woman dealing with intergenerational… experiences with local weather change. However Viet typically says, I feel it’s extra a couple of younger woman and the facility of artwork and the way artwork is used to attach with herself and different individuals. As a result of the e-book is extra than simply about this terrifying hearth that threatens her dwelling. It’s about how she’s capable of join with different people who find themselves going by comparable experiences by saying, hey, draw with me, inform me your story. Let’s draw your home. What does it seem like? Do you need to go dwelling? What does your own home seem like?
Ki Sung: I do love that distinction perhaps between the youngsters’ expertise versus the adults as a result of there may be one web page the place adults are utilizing large phrases that children might have seen. However that is actually about processing occasions that occur in children’ lives that could be out of their management.
Minnie Phan: Completely, for certain. I imply, I’m desirous about, can I’m going into my favourite youngsters’s e-book?
Ki Sung: Completely.
Minnie Phan: Okay. I’m take into consideration after I was a child, I truly didn’t learn very a lot. My mother and father are like many Vietnamese immigrants, refugees from Vietnam, particularly central Vietnam. And I keep in mind I didn’t actually have very many avenues for for communication, connection, understanding, however there was one e-book that I keep in mind so clearly. I’m gonna learn the title. Alexander and the Horrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Unhealthy Day. And I keep in mind, so clearly, selecting up this e-book and saying, that is how I really feel on a extremely unhealthy day. That is how really feel. And it didn’t matter, actually, what occurred that day, but it surely was that I might join and determine what was happening. And that was due to an image e-book. You understand, my mother and father and I… We didn’t have a really robust shared language. I moved rather a lot as a child within the Bay Space. I used to be born in Stockton, however went to 5 elementary faculties all around the Bay Space. So I didn’t have quite a lot of secure connections, however I all the time had books, drawing, writing, and sketchbooks.
Ki Sung: To be sincere, that is inspiring to me as a result of I feel there are quite a lot of educators who do educate college students who’ve struggles speaking with their mother and father, who perhaps are the translator for his or her household, translating essential paperwork, who transfer from place to put, don’t ever actually really feel settled. So that is actually nice to listen to your reflection in your private expertise and assist different children entry that as nicely by this e-book.
Minnie Phan: Completely. Illustration is significant to my work, in fact, however actually, I feel the core of why I do what I do is to attach with my interior little one, which I feel all of us have inside. And I feel, the nearer you might be to your interior little one the higher you’ll be able to make media and artwork for youngsters, since you actually perceive the expertise. Being a child is each joyful and exquisite and thrilling and enjoyable, of trigger, however I feel adults underplay, underappreciate the deep. emotions that youngsters have, the deep capacity that youngsters are able to. Not many individuals undergo rising up in a refugee immigrant household. It’s a lonely expertise, and it’s scary. However I did it, and so many hundreds of thousands of different have. And I feel that’s additionally why we’d like artwork within the Vietnamese diaspora, as a result of it captures this expertise that’s really distinctive and particular. And I might go into my journey.
Ki Sung : Yeah, let’s hear it. I do know you simply acquired again from an enormous journey to Japan and Korea, is that proper? And some years in the past you had additionally gone to Vietnam. Are you able to discuss your travels?
Minnie Phan: Okay, yeah, that is large, we’re gonna get into it. So, I discussed I’ve moved rather a lot as a child, 5 elementary faculties. I truly ended up going to highschool in Pleasanton and I struggled rather a lot in highschool. I virtually didn’t graduate, I had a horrible GPA and I used to be simply within the unsuitable crowd. However my artwork instructor actually noticed one thing in me and he believed in me. Shout out to Mr. Doyle at Novice Valley Excessive, He’s phenomenal. modified my life. He actually confirmed me what artwork might do and I discovered ardour and which means and path and so I utilized to artwork college my senior yr and I acquired a full-ride scholarship to California Faculty of the Arts. And I keep in mind it broke my mother and father coronary heart. They have been so upset they couldn’t imagine it even when it was a full- experience scholarship to a non-public artwork college. They felt that I used to be selecting starvation in a means the place They didn’t select starvation. It was compelled upon them. My mother and father grew up in central Vietnam in a small village in a province referred to as Quang Thi, which I’m so sorry to the Vietnamese individuals listening. I do know my Vietnamese just isn’t good, however that’s okay. However they’re from a small fishing village. And my mom needed to drop out of college when she was in third grade. My father, when he was in fifth grade, as a result of they have been surviving a famine, conflict. They’ve misplaced family members. Starvation was not an choice. It was a actuality. And so after I selected artwork college, all they might see was she’s selecting a tough life. However they didn’t perceive at that second that what I used to be selecting was to inform our tales, was to heal so most of the intergenerational wounds or a minimum of try and heal by a refrain of artists’ voices, the injuries that the Vietnamese diaspora throughout the globe has. And it has been a good looking journey. I feel my life wouldn’t be what it’s if I didn’t go to artwork college. After I was a junior at CCA, I gained a scholarship that was no strings hooked up cash. I might do something, pay tuition, get artwork provides. And I made a decision to go to Vietnam for the primary time on my own. Three weeks, I had no thought what I used to be doing. I’d by no means been on a aircraft alone earlier than and I’d ever been to a rural place, a creating nation, I’ve by no means met so many relations. However I needed to, I’ve to as a result of my mother and father actually simply needed to elevate us up economically in a secure place the place we didn’t have to fret about. illness, conflict, et cetera. However I needed to know, who am I? Who’re we? How will we get right here? Why are we right here? And there’s so many issues that we didn’t be taught in class, in highschool, et cetera. So I needed to actually, I feel I needed to be courageous and do arduous issues. And that have modified my life. I used to be 21 and I met so many type family members. Folks have been so candy and I noticed wealth inequality and poverty at a scale I’d by no means skilled earlier than. However I additionally noticed love and pleasure and affection in a means that solely a village, a real village might present. And likewise, The expertise humanized my mother and father as a result of my mother and father have been so upset about my option to go to artwork college. However after I went to Vietnam, I used to be staying on the dwelling of my mother and father, my mom’s childhood dwelling, and I all of the sudden might see, I might all of the sudden see her little child ft operating by the sand. And I keep in mind this elder came visiting the home and she or he had misplaced her sight and she or he truly had raised my mom when my grandmother had died. And this lady, she lifts her palms and she or he touches my face and she or he goes, I do know who that is. That is Tay’s daughter. I do know her. And so then I all of the sudden had this chance to ask, what was my mom like when she was a woman? What was she like when was little? There have been all of the sudden so many avenues and I wanted that therapeutic. And I feel I couldn’t make it by or be there at that place if I weren’t an artist, seeing the world by an artist’s lens. I used to be there to bear witness to the lives of the individuals round me and likewise my very own life. It actually modified me going again to Vietnam. I got here again and I feel I held much more forgiveness and understanding and love for my mother and father and my household finest they might do.
Ki Sung: I do know teenage years are arduous for everyone, however whenever you’re ready to take a look at the longer arc of a relationship, these moments of restoration, proper, of therapeutic might be so helpful in the long term. So I’m glad you had that have. And the artwork that you just make can be how individuals can recall and course of their experiences. So that you’re imprinting your message on to. children and adults as nicely after they undergo the hardship and take into consideration how one can recuperate from that.
Minnie Phan: Hmm. Yeah, it’s fascinating. Truly, I feel the going so desirous about the image e-book area as particularly about variety and illustration. I Assume probably the most profitable books are those that seize The kid expertise or the expertise of a person in that second I’ve seen a couple of instructions within the picturebook Group that’s about variety or various image books one is the author therapeutic a trauma, the actually particular issues that they need that they had seen after they have been a child. They usually need this e-book to exist as a result of it’s essential. And it’s like, if this e-book exists now, my youthful little one self can have it. And I feel there are additionally different books the place it’s particularly in regards to the expertise of the child. I additionally illustrated a e-book referred to as The Yellow Aoi with Han Bui. And the Aoi, that’s… Al-Yai. Al-yai. OK. And that e-book was about one other metaphor for intergenerational connection a couple of younger woman who finds her mom’s al-yaj and dances in it after which tears it, and she or he feels so unhealthy. However a vital a part of that e-book is forgiveness. I feel that’s a part of the therapeutic that I feel children need to hear, prefer it’s OK to make errors. It’s OK. And so I feel these are the tales that I actually, actually join with.
Ki Sung: Yeah, and breaking one thing of your mother and father or tearing one thing that’s all the time terrifying as a child. Undoubtedly. Okay, so what books are you able to suggest that function Vietnamese American characters?
Minnie Phan: Oh, there’s so many. I actually love the e-book Needs. I imagine that one’s by Monty. And I additionally I like, I cherished The Finest We Might Do by Tee Bui. It’s been my North star. I truly met Tee when she was nonetheless engaged on it and I used to be there on the launch of her e-book and it’s simply been so lovely seeing the reception to her graphic novel. And likewise I really feel like we’re in a I’m in a sance proper now. I see artistic energy, cultural energy, constructing within the Vietnamese neighborhood. And I find it irresistible, I like. And Viet talks about this typically, narrative plentitude, for us to have many, many voices and to finally transcend the ache and trauma of conflict, which in fact is significant and essential and should be honored. However for us, to maneuver ahead as people and as a neighborhood, we now have to see past the heartache, the ache and see the potential, the enjoyment, the longer term. And a lot of our future is in our younger individuals who get to have so many alternatives that we and our mother and father didn’t get to have, however they get proper this second. Some other books you need to suggest? Yeah. Oh, let’s see. There’s the Magic Fish, which is about popping out and being queer. There’s Household Fashion about meals. Oh, there’s an awesome, actually fascinating e-book referred to as My Vietnam, Your Vietnam by Christina Vo, or Vo. And it’s It’s instructed, that is truly perhaps extra of an grownup e-book, but it surely’s her perspective of dwelling in Vietnam and her father’s expertise of dwelling in Vietnam. So it’s each of their experiences dwelling overseas and the e-book finally converges within the heart the place they meet. It’s very fascinating. It’s like a twin memoir. Oh, what? I wanna give an enormous shout out. I wanna to present a shout out UN, UNFAM, UNfam. So after I graduated artwork college, I used to be model new to the sector. I had no examples of Vietnamese individuals within the arts. And I used to be looking spectator books in Oakland someday and I picked up this e-book and I simply cherished the artwork. It was watercolors. It was playful. It was cute. And it was simply so good. I imagine it was Vampirina Ballerina. however I picked it up and I all of the sudden noticed the title and it was a Vietnamese title, the final title Pham. And it was such a good looking, inspiring second the place I keep in mind saying, if she will do it, I can do. And truly I had this lovely full circle second the place I used to be on stage along with her final yr on the Viet E book Fest, offered by Vala. And I acquired to inform her the story and it was simply lovely that she was a trailblazer. She’s a Vietnamese American illustrator and author making it occur. If my 18 yr outdated self might see her and simply know that although my neighborhood has no thought what I’m pursuing, it’s doable. I might be an artist. And I hope whoever’s listening to this, it actually doesn’t quit telling their story, making artwork, being artistic. And in the event you see your little, in the event you your little making artwork and being artistic, let that flourish. It’s gonna present up in so many various methods.
Ki Sung: These are nice suggestions. I hope that extra children and oldsters learn these books. I hope they see themselves within the tales and likewise embody what provides them pleasure. And at all ages, artwork is that, and it could possibly unlock so many different experiences, very similar to what you’ve got discovered all through your profession. So thanks, Minnie Phan, for being right here with us on Thoughts Shift.
Minnie Phan: Thanks a lot.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan is a youngsters’s e-book illustrator who just lately revealed Simone with Viet Thanh Nguyen, and she or he’s a author and artist primarily based in Oakland. We’ll carry you extra concepts and improvements from consultants in training and past. Hit observe in your favourite podcast app so that you don’t miss a factor. The MindShift workforce consists of me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hamburg. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Extra help from Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported partially by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Basis and members of KQED. Thanks a lot for listening.
